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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 89 03:16:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #315

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 315

Today's Topics:
        Red Shift (was Re:Black Hole Trolling)
     Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?
        Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
     Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?
      Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
            Re: NASA Prediction Bulletins
              Re: volatiles on the Moon
               Re: Sources of hydrogen?
                Re: Astrology
              Re^2: Black hole trolling
        Re: Success with cold fusion reported
     Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?
               Re: loft-1 info
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 02:22 EST
From: John Taylor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Red Shift (was Re:Black Hole Trolling)

>>     This is inherently incorrect.  Double-null coordinates on the event
>>horizon have a light-cone parallel to the event horizon surface, which
>>means that no particle can cross the event horizon itself.
>> . . . .
>>     The first appender is correct - the tether will be sliced.
>>
>Then again, since virtual photons violate conservation of energy,
>and virtual pions violate conservation of mass, who knows what
>might happen when you spin a yo-yo into a black hole?
>
>What I have a little trouble buying is the concept of an expanding
>universe.  I have heard that astronomers can determine the distance
>of an object by its red-shift.  This is supposedly because the entire
>universe is expanding, and the objects with the highest velocity will
>thus be farther away.

        Farther shifted to the red side, i.e. Longer Wavelengths

>This all seems to assume that the observed red-shift of distant galaxies
>is due to the Doppler effect.  It makes sense to me that a lot could
>happen to a photon in 10 billion-odd years to shift its frequency around
>a little bit!!  I'd be interested in what the astronomers in the group
>have to say about this.

        I'm no astronomer, but I think that the generally consistent
red-shift received (over a long period of time) would tend to rule out error
due to non-constant "disturbances". The only other thing I can think of,
offhand, that would change a wavelength would be a change in the density of
the transmission medium. This really wouldn't factor in because the
open-space variation isn't that much and local extremes (near planets, etc.)
would shorten the wavelength only while the wave is in the higher density
(these points are tough to get across in a few words). Don't think of the
photon as a particle, think of it as a wave (or wavefront).

        Now, if I may ask a question, would someone please explain how the
"event horizion" is defined? I'm finding references to it somewhat
confusing.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
John Taylor   -- SUNY at Buffalo    |
                                    |  Internet: [e-mail]
            New York:               |  Bitnet:   v131q5cg@ubvmsc
       "The Vampire State"          |
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 10:02:45 GMT
From: sgi![e-mail]
Subject: Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Frank) writes:
> I'm wathing an interview with the discoverers right now on MacNeil-Lehrer.

>     But anyway, these guys say they've had bottles producing heat
> continuously for hundreds of hours in experiments over the last year, and
> that their experiments could essentially be duplicated using the resources
> of a high school chemistry classroom.

Yes, but can someone comeup with a nuetron reflector which can be engaged
in microseconds?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 21:07:19 EST
From: Marvin Minsky <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]

Chapman remarked that "the repulsive forces from the
positive charges on the two nuclei normally require temperatures
of 50 - 100 Million degrees to overcome...".

Here is a thoery of what is happening -- IF it is happening.  Thermal
fusion requires a very high temperature because at lower speeds each
proton will scatter the other before colliding, if they are slightly
misaligned. As I recall, the cross section in normal matter is about
10**-10 (because a nuclear diameter is about 10**-5 of an atomic
diameter).  However, if the protons are perfectly aligned, the fusion
temperature is quite modest -- I think of the order of kilovolts.  But
normally, there is no way to align them well enough at low energy
because of the uncertainty principle.  It could be that if the protons
(that is, deuterons) were suitably bound in a larger solid-state
matrix (e.g., a crystal, as in the Mossbauer effect) then the
alignment could be better because of a higher effective mass.

But I can't figure out how to get the required kilovolts into that
solution with electrodes.  Maybe they simply use a very fast, high
voltage pulse?  Why is the palladium heated?  Perhaps somehow to
reduce the capacitance at the interface to permit a large enough
electric field.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 06:52:33 GMT
From: vsi1!v7fs1![e-mail]  (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael Frank) writes:
>I'm wathing an interview with the discoverers right now on MacNeil-Lehrer.
>You know, it just sounds too good to be true.  Maybe these guys are pulling
>an elaborate April Fools' joke.  Either that, or it's going to be
>bigger than the high-temperature superconductors.  Guaranteed Nobel prizes.

This is one fantastic piece of news.  Of course, I haven't seen any of
these reports yet, and it could be an elaborate April Fools
conspiracy.  If this is an April Fools joke, I'm sending Guido and
Bruno over to pay a little visit to the person or persons
responsible...

But seriously, if this is what it sounds like, it's essentially
unlimited free energy.  Amory Lovins is probably chewing the wallpaper
off the walls of his $500,000 All-Solar house at this moment.
("Nothing short of disatrous" is, I believe, his stated opinion of the
prospect of cheap, clean, abundant energy.)

There is, however, a rather large fly in the ointment.  There are two
places on this planet you can get platinum-group metals in quantity.
Both of these countries could become the super-OPEC of the 21'st
century.

One of them is the Soviet Union.

The other is South Africa.

We *really* need access to the asteriods, which have plenty of platinum-
group metals.
--
Mike Van Pelt                 Video 7              ...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp
"... Local prohibitions cannot  block advances in military and commercial
technology.... Democratic movements for local restraint can only restrain
the world's democracies, not the world as a whole." -- K. Eric Drexler

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 13:48:57 GMT
From: rochester![e-mail]  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature Fusion - possible indication?

(In the following, preface all references to the discovery with
modifiers like "reported", "claimed", etc. and statements by
"assuming it is not a hoax...".)

I believe the discovery might be what is known as "pycnonuclear
fusion", meaning fusion induced by high densities rather than high
temperatures.

Even in thermonuclear fusion, the fuel nuclei do not have enough
energy to actually touch, in a classical sense.  Rather, they can come
close enough so that they can tunnel together in the very short time
before they scatter.  In pycnonuclear fusion, the atoms are compressed
statically.  They therefore have a much longer time in which to
tunnel.  However, because the tunneling rate goes down exponentially
with distance, they still must be quite close.  The nuclei need not be
moving -- pycnonuclear fusion can proceed even at absolute zero.

I wonder if the reaction proceeds by one deuteron tunneling into the
other, forming a compound nucleus that splits, or by the tunneling of
a single nucleon from one nucleus to the other.

One of the researchers said on Macneil-Lehrer that the densities achieved
are the same as gaseous D2 compressed to 10^27 atmospheres (!).  I would
like to know how this was computed.

Nowhere on the news was it reported how fast the reaction actually
goes, although it was implied that the energy released exceeded the
energy supplied.

It might be possible to use slightly enriched water to suppress D+D
reactions in favor of H+D-->He3+gamma reactions.  This would be
largely aneutronic.

I imagine there might be problems in operating a reactor at high
temperatures -- the water would boil, and deuterium would diffuse
rapidly out of the electrode.  Perhaps one could use high pressure to
raise the boiling point, or inject deuterons with a low energy ion
beam.  Also, one could achieve high thermodynamic efficiencies by
stopping the neutrons and gamma rays in a separate, insulated high
temperature collector.

Nuclear proliferation may have just become a lot easier.  I am
moderately surprised that it wasn't classified.  Maybe it will be
now? :-)

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 23 Mar 89 17:03:23 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!axion![e-mail]  (swaraj jeyasingh)
Subject: Re: NASA Prediction Bulletins

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (George Regnery):
I have a lot of CoCo Software for Astronomy.  If
> you or anyone else wants any, just send me a message...
>

I have been trying to write my own without much success. I only have a
Commodore 128 at the moment but hope to get an Amiga or Atari 520 soon.

I am more interested in plotting satellite orbits than star maps, so
if you have anything useful I'd be interested.

Thanks


Swaraj Jeyasingh                       [e-mail]
G24/SSTF
British Telecom Research Labs
Ipswich IP5 7RE
United Kingdom

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 18:37:28 GMT
From: ncrlnk!ncrcce![e-mail]  (Wayne D. T. Johnson)
Subject: Re: volatiles on the Moon

Wouldn't the light being reflected from the moon show spectrum signatures from
the various elements located in the moon, or at least the surface?  This could
tell us for sure.

--
Wayne Johnson                 (Voice) 612-638-7665
NCR Comten, Inc.             (E-MAIL) [e-mail] or
Roseville MN 55113                    [e-mail]
These opinions (or spelling) do not necessarily reflect those of NCR Comten.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Mar 89 00:33:12 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Sources of hydrogen?

In article <191700021@trsvax> [e-mail] writes:
>If the answers to [deep lunar gas] are maybe, what would be the logical
>way to proceed with prospecting likely Lunar sites?

Returning to the Moon would be a good start.
--
Welcome to Mars!  Your         |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
passport and visa, comrade?    | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 17:12:27 GMT
From: mailrus!uflorida!haven!aplcen!aplcomm!stdb.jhuapl.edu![e-mail]  (Jim Meritt)
Subject: Re: Astrology

In article <Added.MY_DYiy00Ui3Q=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Why is there only one Monopolies Commission?) writes:
}John Roberts <[e-mail]> writes:
}>The forces described by astrology may not have any significant effect on
}>humanity, but the institution of astrology does have a strong influence.
}>It effects the views of a large part of the population toward science and
}>logical thought.
}
}All too true.
}
}>By the way, the moon, by providing variable illumination at night and
}>influencing the tides, has a demonstrable influence on animal and human
}>activity, on a month-by-month basis.
}
}In what way? And how seriously? I mean, do ya have some sources?
}
}I mean, maybe the moon has some effect on noctournal animals, but if you're
}trying to defend the age-old astrologer's "the moon effects the tides, and
}they're water, and since the human body is 98% water, the moon must affect
}people" argument, then I would really love to see some data on that.

Ask your wife or girl friend...

(hint: ask for PERIODic events with a CYCLE of appox a lunar month.)

Disclaimer:  "It's mine!  All mine!!!"
                    - D. Duck

------------------------------

Date: 23 Mar 89 17:05:00 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!axion!stc!idec!camcon![e-mail]  (Chris Cracknell)
Subject: Re^2: Black hole trolling

[e-mail] (Scott Henry) writes:

>This is incorrect. The definition of the event horizon is the point at
>which photons cannot escape to *infinity*. This in no way implies that
>they cannot cross the event horizon, they just cannot make it very far
>past it (depending on how deep they started). The bonds between atoms

   This is incorrect.  Consider a photon inside the event boundary.   It
crosses a little way outside the boundary, is then outside the boundary, and
can escape as well as any photon that started outside the boundary.   Thus
contradicting your definition of the event horizon.   Hawking showed that
matter can escape the event horizon, though only in a limited way.   This
mechanism (Hawking's) considers quantum fluctuations to produce a particle/
antiparticle pair separated by the boundary.   The particle may be able to
get away, leaving its antiparticle behind inside the event horizon to
annihilate the original particle.   Thus the black hole loses mass equivalent
to one particle, and a particle can be found outside the event horizon.   Note
the particle hasn't actually CROSSED the event horizon.

Chris Cracknell

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 15:17:48 GMT
From: mailrus!uflorida!haven!aplcen!aplcomm!stdc.jhuapl.edu![e-mail]  (Jim Meritt)
Subject: Re: Success with cold fusion reported

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John B. Nagle) writes:
}
}     The University of Utah has announced that researchers there have achieved
}"a sustained thermonuclear reaction at room temperature".  A press conference
}will be held there this afternoon.  Papers have been submitted to Nature.
}An article appears on page B1 of today's Wall Street Journal.  Few details are
}available at this time.

Heard Teller on the radio this morning saying that it might set his "maybe
in 40 years" way off.  It was also on page 3 of the Washington Post, and it
sounds 1) simple 2) odd.

A neutron flux from a chemical reaction!?!?!?!?!

}     If this is not bogus, it is the biggest development in energy production
}since nuclear fission.

I'd say "fire", since fission has never been all that easy to use, and if this
works like the write up you could put a reactor under the hood of a car.



The above was test data, and not the responsibility of any organization.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 05:32:57 GMT
From: orion.cf.uci.edu!uci-ics!harlie.ics.uci.edu![e-mail]  (Wendy Sarrett)
Subject: Re: Room Temperature fusion - possible indications?


To follow up - I heard them interviewed on McNeil/Learer tonight and they
stated that the results will be published in May.



Wendy Sarrett
([e-mail])
Department of Information and Computer Science
University of California, Irvine

------------------------------

Date: 24 Mar 89 17:01:44 GMT
From: ncrlnk!ncrwic!encad![e-mail]  (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: loft-1 info

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (R. M. Jungclas) writes:
>Another friend of mine reports that details of this flight are reported
>in a recent issue (January?) of Discovery magazine.


The article in question was in the February issue of Discover...about 2.5
pages, with a shot of the vehicle and some of the principals involved, along
with a truly gorgeous takeoff photo. The picture shows the bird at an altitude
of perhaps 200 ft with a truly impressive sooty gray smoke cloud, characteristic
of the Vulcan "Smoky Sam" propellant recipe (derived, I believe, from a
US Navy recipe)
--
Mark Johnson ([e-mail]) WB9QLR/0 (Monon RR enthusiast)
NCR Engineering & Manufacturing-Wichita, KS  phone: [phone]
email:...!rutgers!hplabs!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrwic!encad!mjohnson
US snailnet: 3718 N. Rock Rd., Wichita, KS 67226

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #315
*******************